Resolution 10: Charlotte 660 Votes “Aye”

From Tom Brewer, IAFF Local 660 President

 

I am the president of Local 660 in Charlotte, NC. At our July Business Meeting the membership of our local voted unanimously to support Resolution 10. If it takes a floor fight to get this resolution we will stand with those who stand for what is right.

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37 Comments

  • Jim smith says:

    Eric, I hope you are a delegate to the convention. I am a delegate and an active full time firefighter and eagerly awaiting your floor comments at the microphone. I will be voting no on this until I hear why you are not an active firefighter. I don’t need to be listening to a tour guide tell me what is good for me and my local.

  • Jim smith says:

    So answer the question, when will you be a delegate at the microphone? Or am I to assume you are not a delegate?

    • Eric Lamar says:

      I am not a delegate so I am expressing my concern here. I have also informed my local delegates of my concerns.

      • Jim smith says:

        So…….. You are concerned as a retired firefighter, ex staff member of the IAFF. One that has no repercussions of local bargaining issues, state or federal legislation relating to firefighters, or the future health and safety of yourself. I guess I don’t get it, you have nothing to gain except getting people stirred up in a boys club that you think the IAFF is. Why don’t you be retired, organize the tour guides and let those of us who are delegates and have something to lose from this make the decisions for ourselves and the future firefighters in this country and Canada. I will be vociferously advocating for a no vote over resolution 10. And I can assure you I have lots of pros from the west coast listening. Since I have been getting your daily rants to my email for months now and your blind copied tirades to people I respect and consider friends, I’m speaking up. Jim

  • Jim smith says:

    You’re comment about Harold is irrelevant to my question. Don’t deflect the issue here, I want to know what Local YOU are an officer in, and who you will be representing as a delegate. A retiree to me has no value to my decision as a delegate. Jim

  • Jim smith says:

    You obviously don’t like being called out. I fully expect you to take my comments down from your blog. You have no class or credibility and the delegates will see right through you.

    • Eric Lamar says:

      You’re still writing and your words are still here.

      What sayest you know?

    • Don Jewett says:

      Sorry “Jim Smith”, I can assure you Eric has done more to benefit our Union than you could ever fathom. I worked with him for those 22 years and would support him to the end. We didn’t always agree on National political issues but I trusted him to represent us, the Fire Fighters, to the end.

      He’s welcome to being called out, I’d place my money on him to defeat you in any debate. He’s well educated and up to date on the subject at hand, be careful what you wish for.

      • Jim smith says:

        Well, his writing show a desperate and disgruntled man.

        • Eric Lamar says:

          J-

          Again, you fail to even once address a single specific yet you instantly revert to attacking me personally.

          Might I return for a second to your comment, “I agree with Harold on not having this debate on an IAFF blog…”

          This page is the VERY REASON Harold should have allowed debate there.

          It CANNOT be stopped.

          Now he looks weak and defensive, worse yet, hiding from the issues.

          • Jim smith says:

            I don’t need to have a substantive debate with you here. I’ve said it before, I will reserve my debate when I have both sides of the story on the convention floor.

          • Eric Lamar says:

            But in lieu of a “substantive debate” you are happy to attack my character and credibility.

            I’ll bet Harold’s hating you right now for shitting on all the active-retirees who give money to FIREPAC.

            Laugh-out-loud.

            Be prepared for the 2AM phone call from Pete Gorman or Kevin O’Connor to walk that baby back.

            Let me know if you need some help. I worked for Harold for 12 years and know a little bit about “walking back.”

            I suggest you begin by apologizing right up front.

            “I certainly didn’t mean to offend blah, blah, blah…”

          • Jim smith says:

            You haven’t shown me anything to give you any credibility. You never disclosed you weren’t a delegate. As far as fireplace goes, bring it. My local is plenty big enough that he and Peter won’t be able to do any walking back. Not worried for a second. And if they do, then I have plenty of other things to do with my life and I will gladly pass the torch to the next guy. I have no axes to grind and no agenda to push. And I bet others are thrilled I’m saying what they want to say to you.

          • Eric Lamar says:

            I infer from your reply that if one is not a delegate they are not entitled to an opinion.

            Excuse the Stalinesque reference yet again, but that is exactly how the Soviet Union worked: if you were not both a member of the Party and the Politburo, you had no say.

            By the way, if you are from a big local I take that phone call/walking back stuff back. Harold only cares about big locals so shit away.

  • Eric Lamar says:

    May I point out once again, since you folks cannot reply to the miss-deeds and blatantly unethical behavior with a cogent defense, you are reduced to calling into question my motivation, character, and credibility.

    THAT, my friend, is what people see through.

    • Jim smith says:

      I bet to differ, and your incessant rants are personal and should be discussed by the delegates. I laughed at your email this morning about your web traffic hits. You think this is in the bag, but it isn’t. I have talked to many many delegates who feel the rants of a retired, disgruntled ex staffer at the IAFF are just that. Looking for a pity party for you. I’d like to find out who you work for now so that I can organize a boycott against that firm. Confidence breeds complacency.

  • Eric Lamar says:

    As I mentioned previously, you have yet to address ANY specifics.

    Let me help you with just one:

    Do you agree or disagree with what Harold Schaitberger did to union brother Darren Bates?

    See link below:
    http://www.turnoutblog.com/2014/06/25/ethics-dvp-romaka-weighs-in/

    You say I’m “personal.”

    What Schaitberger did to Darren Bates was personal.

    Why don’t you have a chat about that at the convention.

    The only thing we have left is free speech and now you propose abridging that.

    Lordy, Stalin would be proud.

    By the way, you’ll never see this kind of discussion thread on the IAFF page because Harold would not allow it.

    He is guilty of the very thing he, you and others accuse me of.

    Eric

    • Jim smith says:

      And as far as Stalin and free speech, those are way over the top dramatics. You are exercising free speech as am I. I agree with Harold on not having this debate on an IAFF blog, there are plenty of other places, such as this, that this can happen. Decision makers are delegates, I am a delegate, I want this debate on the convention floor, not made up before we get to convention and have my mind made up. I need both sides.

      • Eric Lamar says:

        You say, “as far as Stalin and free speech, those are way over the top dramatics.”

        Nay nay, Stalin deployed a model of iron-fisted control where dissent, even among the elected leadership of the Politburo was strictly prohibited.

        Dissenters were banished from the Kremlin to very cold places.

        We could be discussing the IAFF.

        • Jim smith says:

          Give me a break. This is a private organization, not a socialist government. People have a right to be in our out. It’s their choice. There were no choices in soviet Russia. Those are over the top dramatics.

          • Eric Lamar says:

            Precisely my point, choice was destroyed by Stalin.

            Though I apparently lack the academic credentials to say this, I am bothered at how mentioning either Stalin or Hitler is always shouted down as dramatic or theatrical.

            Stalin was a piss-poor Ukrainian peasant and Hitler was a failed painter yet they dominated the world through personal skills.

            Their rise to power through personal traits and influence is fair game for discussion.

            One need not impute a holocaust or pogrom to Harold Schaitberger to notice commonality with meglo-maniacs.

  • Jim smith says:

    Again, I am not here to debate specifics or the accusations you are waging, however I do not need a one sided version of your opinions crammed down my throat in my in box every morning. That is why I originally asked if you were a delegate and would be at the convention to be part of a meaningful debate where evidence from both sides is presented. Obviously, you won’t be and therein lies the issue. You are not able to be part if the debate because you are not leadership, you are an outsider looking in. I see your accusations of the Darren Bates matter, but until I hear both sides of the story and the situation, I am not going to render a decision. So, we all get to look forward to you throwing accusations in from afar. The delegates, the people who do make the decisions will debate this matter as this union did long before we were alive and long after we are gone. I am completely turned off now that I hear you aren’t a delegate, an active firefighter, or a union officer. I fail to see why you should even care how this union moves forward into the future. You are out of the fire service. Move on and let those of us who are still here take care of ourselves.

    • Eric Lamar says:

      I know I am doing a broken record thing here but you wrote all of this over receiving my blog posts? (LOL)

      Delete them, add me to your spam filter.

      I love the fact that where you are concerned I am trash because I am Active-retired.

      i served 22 years in the field, risked my job as a union officer in a right-to-work state and now I’m “chopped liver.”

      HA!

      You should focus test that with AARP.

      By the way, the fact that ethics will be discussed on the convention floor is due to “stand-up” union brothers and sisters who see the rot and know we have to change.

      Since the Bates case is apparently too complicated for you, would you try this one?

      And finally, for all you folks who think Schaitberger’s $1,000,000+ undisclosed deals with a man who does substantial business with the IAFF Financial Corp and the IAFF is A.O.K., if you found out your fire chief bought a $1,000,000 house from the guy who sells your department the rigs you ride on, you’d be pretty skeptical as would the press and elected officials. In fact, that fire chief might be looking for a job.

      Why is it suddenly OK when it’s the president of our union?

      A conflict is a conflict.

      – See more at: http://www.turnoutblog.com/2014/07/09/iaff-ethics-not-so-trusty-trustees/#sthash.zJJxNqVV.dpuf

      • Jim smith says:

        Yes, and what put me over the top is your one sided celebration of who you have gotten support from! Why not publish both sides? I also received your email about how many hits you had last year and how many more you had this year. That is bragging to the leadership that this is a done deal, well it isn’t. That is what made me speak up. I have 29 years I’m the fire service, 13 and counting as a local president. I am still active on an engine company as a captain. So if we are comparing time of service, I have you smoked. An ethics debate is perfectly sound, on the floor. And I fully expect 10 to be amended significantly at the committee level and be rewritten to a strong, broad based ethics statement. Also, I have a Masters degree where we wrote effective and relevant ethics statements and yours in not anywhere in that ball park. So cheerleading for 10 like it stands isn’t going to happen. And unfortunately you have no say.

        • Eric Lamar says:

          Wow, consider me impressed; especially the Masters Degree part.

          I barely got an associate’s.

          I am not bragging about anything–you asked for proof?

          I was giving the officers PROOF that people are reading, listening and weighing in.

          And, that I and others are in this for the long haul.

          Anyone who knows me will attest that i am most certainly not the bragging type.

          Resolution 10 that “needs rewriting” and that is not “anywhere in [your] ballpark” is in fact the words of former US President George H.W. Bush, drawn 99.99% from 5 CFR 2635.101(b), “Principles of Ethical Conduct”, a federal standard which firefighters would certainly find appropriate. It provides a clear and straightforward set of principles which guide and direct ethical behavior for millions of Americans.

          http://oge.gov/uploadedfiles/education/education_resources_for_ethics_officials/resources/14_general_principles_card.pdf

          But, by all means, edit away.

          • Jim smith says:

            It came across to me as bragging, an I’m certainly not alone. Your continuous pushing as the convention nears makes it seem like you are a done deal. Again, I was hoping you were a delegate and part of the decision making process.

  • Eric Lamar says:

    By the way, you said:

    “I agree with Harold on not having this debate on an IAFF blog…”

    What is he afraid of? Words?

    Did you know that work place speech where labor is talking to management is protected even when it is offensive?

    So, we can talk that way to the bosses but not in our union?

    That’s just about all you need to know right there.

    Uncle Joe is getting up from dinner.

    • Jim smith says:

      In my local we don’t have a blog either, mine and my boards decision. We collectively feel that people should talk in person and attend meetings. It at least make a phone call. That has been very productive for us and made us stronger as we are not hiding behind computers. If people have a concern about me or my leadership, I talk to them and address their concerns personally. And if they want change, then run someone against me and let the voters decide. Free speech, representative democracy. The IAFF members had that same choice in 2012.

  • Milton Painter says:

    I’ve been reading this blog for a few months now. Just as a point of reference; I am retired after over 30 years with the Fairfax County. I have been, and still am, a member of the IAFF and Local 2068 since July 1982. I worked on the same shift as Eric on at least two different occasions. I am currently (probably no longer after this is read) an instructor with the IAFF HazMat/WMD Dept. and have been for well over 20 years.

    Jim Smith – I can assure you, Eric was a damn good firefighter; during that time he was also our Local & State President. Jim – I have a suggestion and request – if you don’t like what you ‘re reading on this blog, stop reading it and block your e-mail account from receiving e-mails from such. As far as the suggestion – you continually asked Eric for who he is and what he is, how about this, if you’re going to continuing to post – tell us what Local you’re President of.

    As far as what has been posted on here over the past weeks/months regarding the actions of the GP, I don ‘t know if any of it, some of it, or none of it is true. I do know this, even if only some of it is true, it sure ses like some “shady/questionable” acts/actions to me and warrants passage of the resolution. If the things being talked about here are legit, then what’s the harm of the passing the resolution. I hope my Local and OUR and my Delegates from Local 2068 vote for it. My only question is (and maybe it says so int resolution), who will “police” it?

    As for Jim Smith saying Eric has no “right” to ” stir the pot”, since he ‘s just a retired firefighter and not an officer or delegate, with that line of thinking – I expect Jim Smith will stand on the floor at the convention and ask for the resignation of the GP and all of the staff that work at 1750 New York Ave N.W. Along with the District VP’s to resign effective immediately – after all, none of them are firefighters, they ‘re retired, what interest do they have in this.

    Milton Painter
    Retired member of Local 2068

  • Jim smith says:

    Not inferred at all. Just misrepresented. The IAFF is a private corporation, not a government. It is up to the members, the delegates that represent the members, to keep the leadership accountable. We all, our locals, have choices whether we stay or go. So you should be comparing corporations, both for profit and non profit and point to their successes or failures depending on the leadership challenges. Harold has never done anything against me or my members and has been nothing but supportive every single time we have asked. I respect and thank him for that. The IAFF in its current structure has served us well and we fully expect it will continue to serve us well with Harold at the helm. Our dvp works tirelessly for all locals, not just our large local. Our state council is extremely effective and has served us mightily over the years. We have to go on our experience and our track record. There are always problems in large organizations and that is what the conventions are for. We will take our boards and our memberships questions and concerns to the delegate body and make a decision. We will win some and lose some but we will come out unified as we have for many years. So ethics resolution or not, we will stay together and move on. I get the distinct feeling that if this fails, then there will continue to be a decisive fight from you.

  • Jim smith says:

    Everyone’s opinion counts. Members to delegates, delegates to IAFF leadership. I have taken your opinion and have deceived that I don’t agree. I am a delegate and therefore will be voting my choice. Harold has been extremely supportive of our local, our state and done everything we’ve asked. Comparing dictatorships in governments is like apples to oranges. Compare corporations, for profit and non profit and gauge those successes and failures. Nobody is forcing anyone to stay. You obviously chose to leave the staff at the IAFF. You had that choice. Our dvp has supported all if us all the time. He works tirelessly and I support him and will continue. As a delegate, I have listened to your opinion and I do not agree, so I will be voting how I choose to and my membership has directed. And they support the IAFF and Harold. We will go to convention, win some and lose some and come out united as we always have. And if we lose, then that is the will of the majority. A representative democracy. Harold will not be influencing my vote. Period.

  • Peter says:

    Be careful Brother Smith, you are treading very close to insulting a lot of people who have served this international union well and care about these issues too. Have your say, but do not insult fellow brothers and sisters.

  • Joe Swift says:

    So President / Delegate Jim Smith you have been asked at least twice to identify yourself and have yet to. If you are such a proud member of you local and the IAFF shout it from the roof top.
    I am glad the Harold and your DVP have been supportive of you and the local you represent but unethical behavior i still just that. As I posted on my local’s page; a drug dealer who feeds the poor is still a drug dealer.

    Joe Swift
    L2068

  • David B Foreman says:

    Hmmm Jim Smith sounds like a made up name to me, sure sounds like another one of Harold’s tricks. Jim Smith must either be afraid to mention his local or he is a fictitious character made up by Harold or one of his cohorts. He says Eric withheld information. When asked Eric volunteered the information Jim wanted. Jim has not come forward with the the information Eric asked for what local do you represent. I would think that if Jim has been active for as long as he claims he would have at least heard of Eric Lamar. This character seems like he might not really exist or may not be what he claims to be. This would not surprise me because Harold is well known for asking others to make phone calls, write letters or spread rumors for him. I don’t doubt this Jim Smith might be just another of Harold’s charades to deceive our members.

  • Karrie Leigh Boswell says:

    Jim Smith, I am a 27 year member of the IAFF and active duty firefighter. Resolution 10 is not an indictment of our general president or anyone else. It’s an affirmation of the ethical and moral law of our organization. The choice to support a written ethics policy on the floor of convention should be viewed as a “yea” for what every firefighter in this country and Canada SHOULD stand for; being ethically and morally sound. I am a big supporter of General President Schaitberger. He came from my fire department, my local. He inspired me to become more active in the IAFF. I cannot count the number of times I have heard him speak, or read something he wrote that made me want to be a better trade union activist. He gave me the courage to speak in support of this resolution publicly. Without years of watching him not be afraid of anything I might not have the courage to say what I think about this issue. Listening to him talk about his mother and her involvement in his life is something I can relate to. I got my beliefs about the role of trade labor from my parents (UMWA and APWU) Hearing him talk about his involvement in the origination of my own local is inspirational. Even with all this brew ha ha if he called me today and ask me to drive to Richmond I would go without even asking why. Resolution 10 is a declaration of who we are as firefighters. Our moral and ethical standards must be above question. Anyone who will not defend the honor and integrity of this great international I have to question their footing in terms of being on morally and ethically solid ground this includes him and you. Anyone who is an elected labor leader must understand that without “boots on the ground we are nothing”. If our members do not believe that this international is as solid as a rock ethically they will begin to peel off, loss interest, drop PAC. In other words, if you don’t believe in the cause you won’t support it we risk having the soldiers walk off the battlefield. “Leadership is a potent combination of strategy and character, but if you must be without one, be without the strategy” -Norman Schwarzkopf. Regardless of what you think of Eric Lamar and his motives it doesn’t change the foundation of the debate. Do you know how many criminals are in prison on the testimony of other criminals? Eric might be all the things you said he is, but are you willing to turn your back on a written policy that does nothing but define our entire organization as being ethically solid. If our international is what the general president promised it would be, “about the members”. Then this should be an up and down unanimous vote after he speaks on it. He as the leader of our international should be speaking on behalf of the resolution which parliamentary procedure would allow with the appropriate actions. There is a widespread and popular belief (albeit incorrect) that no chairman ever votes, whereas in fact a chair has a right to vote and to even debate. Not feeling my argument Google Robert’s Rules of Order Newly Revised. I have been an elected delegate 4 times since 2006. I have spoken in caucus and on the floor of convention. So say me Karrie Leigh Boswell IAFF Local 2068 IAFF # 0430865

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